Hello and welcome to Women in Blockchain Talks podcast. My name is Lavinia Osborne and I am the founder and host of this podcast. I'm very excited to have you here with me today as I interview the various men, women who are in this space, adding value, building and also those adjacent to the space who are adding their value to the ecosystem. Today, I have Robby Yung, who is a partner at Animoca Capital and CEO of Investments at Animoca Brands, a leader in digital entertainment, blockchain, and gamification with a portfolio of products and games, including the Rev, REVV and Sand tokens as well as investments and partnerships with companies such as Axie Infinity, OpenSea, Dapper Labs and Alien Worlds as well as subsidiaries like The Sandbox, Games, Quidd and Limpo. Robbie has been in gaming since 2012 and blockchain gaming since 2018. He served as the first CEO of Animoca Brands after taking the group public in 2015. Prior to that, he co -founded magazine publisher One Media Group, which he listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. He also founded Chinese television and outdoor media concern Red Gate Media Group, which was acquired by InnoTech Holdings. He began his career in technology, building wireless telecom networks in China and Indonesia with Metro Media.
What a CV, Robby. Welcome and thank you for joining us today.
I think you've just confirmed that I'm old pretty much. Well, you know what? There's a saying that I like, an oldie but a goodie.
I guess we'll see. Stick around to the end of the podcast and judge for yourself.
Yes, indeed. OK, so Robby, you are definitely one of the key players and key names on the Web3 UK landscape and also just Web3 in generally. Generally, and Animoca Brands, of course, is one of the big global brands in the Web3 space. So can you provide an overview of Animoca Brands mission and how it aligns with your focus on digital property rights and the Web3? Sure. So I think maybe the best way to talk about it is kind of to start with how we got to where we are. You know, how do we end up? in this space to begin with. So we began, I guess, life as a company, as a mobile game. And we did this for many years and reasonably successfully. We're headquartered in Hong Kong. And we were always looking for new areas of growth. And we're always interested in new technology and trying to find ways in which we can grow our business, our product portfolio, our customer base, etc. And around 2015, we noticed that our core business was slowing down as mobile was maturing.
And so when we started to look around for new technologies, particularly in 2017, we came across something quite exciting. And that was a hackathon project actually in Vancouver who was trying to use tokens or tokenization to create in -game content as opposed to what we used to call crypto or cryptocurrency. And so for this, they actually wrote the NFT standard. So they wrote the, what we know as ERC 721 in the industry and created the NFT for this. And the game that they did that for was called CryptoKitties. And that team became Dapper Labs. And so we were quite fortunate to meet them early on, kind of in their infancy. And we worked on that project together with them, helping them to publish that game in Greater China. And I think that for us, that was the seminal moment because we really only had worked with them for probably, I don't know, four or five months, by which point we decided that..this was how games should be made. And we came to that conclusion, I think, from two perspectives. It would be easy to rewrite history and say we were really smart and had lots of foresight and just saw the future. But that's not how these things work, because I think there's always a push and a pull. So the pull was that vision of the future, and the push was slowing growth in our core business in traditional mobile games. So we were definitely looking for new tech and new things that new markets, new audiences, et cetera. And we found in blockchain something quite remarkable, which was we found a technology that allowed you to essentially create in -game content as NFTs in this case, that users could actually own. And it sounded a little bit almost contradictory at first, because you think to yourself, well, actually, people play games and they spend money in games and they buy stuff. They buy virtual items.They buy race cars and swords and armies and skins and all this kind of stuff. Don't they own it? But actually when you think about it, no, they don't. So like most things in software, they actually rent it. So what they do is they pay for a license to use it in the game, subject to the terms and conditions of the game maker and the platform on which it resides. So there's actually pages and pages and pages of legal documentation that you essentially click through and agree to inorder to play with these assets in these games. So because you don't own those assets, you can't actually do anything with them that you would expect to do with things that you own namely, you can't give them to other people, give them to your friends, you can't sell them to people secondhand when you get tired of them, you can't transfer them, they don't exist outside the game, you can't use them in another game. So you don't really own them. And...I think it was that idea that really kind of struck a chord with us and we said, look, this just seems obvious. Why wouldn't people who play games want to own this stuff in their games? So we should start making all our games this way. And frankly, we should try to convince as many game makers as possible that this is how games should be made because it just seems like a natural evolution for the industry.
I love that. I love how you, that last statement a natural evolution of the industry because obviously we're seeing with tech, just full stop tech, that it has evolved so much over the last 20 years, particularly with mobile, smartphone, most people can't live without their smartphone. And so this is one of the things that I say when I talk to different communities in Web3, outside of Web3, about the importance of of this space, it's an evolution of technology and it's important to look at who's building it and this is why I do what I do and talk about the things that I do in regards to diversity and inclusion because in order for this new space to be built in a very inclusive, diverse way, we need everybody involved and not just a homogenous few.So with that being said, could you share a success story or case study from Animoca brands that illustrates the impact of your work and really showcases digital ownership?
Hmm. Okay. So I think, I mean, there's any number of examples. I'd say probably the easiest one to pick is one of our more mature and well -known projects, which is called the Sandbox. And the Sandbox is essentially an open world metaverse, let's call it. People who are familiar with the very popular game of Minecraft, I think, will see a lot of similarities with sandbox in that they have similar 8 -bit pixelated art styles, and they're also both designed to be centered around user -generated content. So they're essentially big open spaces which provide you with the building blocks to make your own fun stuff. And so the idea is that there is content that's professionally created as well as the ability for you to create your own content because we find that there is huge interest and very long -term, long -lasting value in user -generated content metaverses because users love to engage socially in both the art of building experiences but then spending time in those experiences with their friends, which is why we see in Web2 examples games like Minecraft, or Roblox, for example, as being some of the biggest games in the industry. And even Fortnite now is embracing more user -generated content aspects. And in fact, if we look at the most popular MMO, Massive Multiplayer Online Games, historically, many of them grew out of what we in the gaming community call mods, which are modifications or extensions of other AAA games that were so popular that then the publisher decided to make a sequel based upon the mod. So it's very community driven. And the wonderful thing about Web3 Tools is it allows you to lean into this idea of community and really listening to the community and giving them agency through their ownership of content and their participation. And so with Sandbox, what we've done is we've created a world in which you can buy land and you can build on that land and you can build experiences. But it's up to you what that experience is. You can just leave it empty if you want, or you could build an art gallery, you could build a game experience, you could build a puzzle, you could build a museum, you could build a club and invite your friends to come and listen to DJs. You can just do what you like with the space. As well as individuals, of course, companies and brands have also come to the sandbox and built experiences, whether it's virtual auto showrooms or, you know, stores or clubs or shops or brand experiences, whatever. And I think that this is really exciting because it's essentially leaning into the idea of what we call the metaverse, which is a digital space that has a lot of similarities to what we do in physical space, but allows us to congregate without physical limitations, meaning that, you know, everybody who shows up in the sandbox at a given moment in time,can be from anywhere around the world. So you get to meet, you know, not just the people who are physically on your doorstep, but people from everywhere, which is quite exciting.
Now with the sandbox, is it, can you use a multiple currencies, currencies to enter or is it one main cryptocurrency to enter? So within the sandbox, you use a currency that we call sand and sand is the native token of sandbox. So in order to build items, you need sand to build things. And the idea is that we wanted to keep it very straightforward and understandable. So you can think of sand almost like Lego blocks. And so the more blocks you have, the bigger and more complicated something you could build with it. And so the same thing goes with sand. So the more sand you have, the larger the structure you can build or the more complex the structure you can build. But you can bring any fiat or cryptocurrency with you to sandbox and exchange it for sand to use within the game.
Now, the important thing about the cryptocurrency, Sand, is that also, like many other projects in Web 3, Sand functions not just as a medium of exchange, but also provides the participants in the community with rights around governance in the space. And that's one thing that we announced at the very beginning of the project, that over time, we would continually decentralize the governance of the Sandbox metaverse to the community. And so Sand will function as the mechanism through which people express their will.
Wow. I love that. Are you able to share, I'm sure you can, some of the brand names who have built experiences within the Sandbox?
Sure. We have all kinds of brands. I'd say we have brands like Banks, like HSBC and Standard Chartered. We have companies like you know, Adidas and Nike. And we have actually celebrities like Steve Aoki, the DJ, or Snoop Dogg, the rapper. And actually Snoop Dogg's, I have to say, is one of the more popular places. I think that's frankly because he himself has taken a very avid interest in what we're doing in the sandbox. And I think when you have celebrity -driven activations, the actual amount of time that the celebrity pays and attention that they pay to, you know, doing live AMAs or events with the community, I think has a direct correlation to how much the community feels engaged in the platform as opposed to something that is merely branded. So I think there actually Snoop's personal participation and attention has actually really driven the success of that community. Yeah, I mean Snoop Dogg, what I love about Snoop Dogg, and I am a fan, that he's always just. He's such an entrepreneur. He's not just an entertainer. He's such an entrepreneur. And it's really great that he has embraced the Web3 community as he has. Before I move on to the next question, I just want to kind of go back to what you're talking about with Crypto Kitty and share a story with you and also the listeners. So when I first came into this space back in 2017, I was working for a company, a blockchain company and we had our Christmas do and we had to, we did Secret Santa. And so there were people within the business, the staff who were more advanced in the whole, WEB3, crypto space than I was. I was very, very green, let's just put it that way. So anyway, I got my, my Secret Santa was an envelope and me being a little bit clumsy, I kind of ripped the envelope open but not all the way and then I opened it and I saw that it was a printout and it was a printout with all these long letters and I it was just gobblygook to me and it was for a crypto kitty so I was like I don't really know what to do with this so I took it home and I I I folded it up I put it back in the envelope in the torn envelope and then I said, okay, I'm gonna pay some attention to this at a later date. And I put it down and that was like six years ago. I know it's somewhere in my house, but I have no idea where it is. It's like every time I see the term Crypto Kitty and knowing that it was the first NFT, gaming NFT out, oh my god, where is my Crypto Kitty? And so I'm hoping one day it's just going to appear out of nowhere and I'm gonna be like, there you are.
Exactly, well if nothing else, you get tremendous street cred for having a vintage Crypto Kitty. I know, I know, I know. So yes, I was in the game before I even knew I was in the game. All right, so with that being said, you know, How do you foresee Web3 reshaping industries beyond digital assets? And what role does AnimoCo brands play in this transformation?
So I guess this is where I need to start engaging in hyperbole because I really do think that Web3 actually changes everything. And I think it changes everything for the very fundamental reason that we've been talking about, which is this idea of digital assets. Because if you think about what that means, it means that we can place a value on a piece of digital content that is owned. And if you think about how much of our time we spend online. I'm not sure what it is here in the UK, but I know in Asia, the average person spends anywhere from six to eight hours a day online. And before you get taken aback at that, actually consider how much time you probably spend, I mean you as in the listening audience here, because we all spend an inordinate amount of our time online. I realized myself, because a couple of years ago, I hit an age where I need reading glasses and I find that I actually wear my reading glasses all day long, which sounds odd, except that it's because I pick up my phone so many bloody times a day that I'm always checking my phone and responding to something. So I actually need to read all the time. And that was a salient reminder of how much I actually am online. And if you think of how much time we spend online currently, All of that time and effort that we spend online often is to creating content for social media platforms, for example, on traditional protocols like email, etc. And all of this digital content that we create essentially has no value because, well, it has no value to us. It has some value to Facebook and Google and Microsoft and a couple of other companies. But aside from them, who are essentially monetizing our attention as advertising, It doesn't have any value to us. And that's because we can't keep it from being copied. We can't track its ownership. And so therefore, it's not considered to be an owned object because you cannot tell a genuine article from a fraudulent one. And thanks to Web3, we can now do that. And because we can do that, we can actually say, OK, now I can say that I own, in your case, this CryptoKitty that I received from my Secret Santa. And it's a unique thing. That doesn't mean that it has value. It just means you own it, right? It may or may not have value like any other object in the physical world. But think about the idea of all of those people, you know, we have 6 billion people, 7 billion people online, spending 6 or 8 hours a day creating content, and it goes from having no value to having some value, indeterminate value. But could that value be millions? billions?, trillions?. It's hard to conceive of, but I would probably suspect that it's in the latter category of trillions. So if you think of us creating trillions of dollars of asset value from where there's currently zero, then that becomes a very interesting industry.
Yes, it most definitely does. And it was your point about the digital asset and the ownership. So as you're aware, that two years ago to my NFTs, not my cryptokitty, which is somewhere in my home. So secure that you can't find it. Exactly. So secure I can't find it. But my Boss Beauties, I'm sure you've heard of the Boss Beauties NFTs, and they were stolen from my Metamask wallet. And I took it to the High Courts of England and Wales. And off the back of that, I was granted the world's first ever proprietary injunction for a digital asset, an NFT, in the world, setting case law here in the UK and which is now used around the world because of course the UK have that old established case law in place. And so that basically stated that my NFTs was my property and of course that has an impact on insurance because if it's your property then there's an implication around insurance, taxation, and of course legal, like the whole who owns it sort of thing. So as we move forward and evolve, using that word again, we're starting to look at the legal, the compliance and the regulatory aspects of the digital asset ownership and crypto web 3 space. What are your thoughts on that? You know, What are your thoughts on regulatory landscape and how it's evolving around blockchain and digital assets? And how is Animoco brands navigating around that?
So I think when you think about these digital assets, I think the point that you made about all of these ancillary services that rise up around the fact that you now have something that's considered an asset, I think is really important. Not the least of which I think was what you called insurance as well as the, I guess, the existence of the asset. Because I think when I think about the existence of the asset, when an asset exists, it means that you can then borrow against it. And this is a really important principle because for most people, I think, in around the world, but especially in Western society and developed Asian society, your home is often your biggest asset if you're lucky enough to own a home. And the reason that a home is a valuable asset is, of course, because you can borrow against it. And it allows you to then build wealth, because that borrowing capability gives you additional power to acquire more assets against which you could borrow further. And if you think about what's happening in digital space, if we can now be able to leverage those digital assets for the purpose of generating asset value and generating wealth, it means that people who have access to digital assets, then have access to the tools of building wealth. And often, I think there's a very large segment of society, and when I say society, I mean global society, that don't have access to a lot of the traditional mechanisms for wealth. Even simply things like bank accounts or credit cards. A lot of people would struggle to provide photographic identification, for example, which is a hot topic here in the UK with an election coming up . And so as a result, it excludes them from the ability to create wealth. And the ability to create wealth obviously has a lot to do with raising your standard of living, etc. And we all know those lessons. So I think that that's a really, really important factor. And so to have the legal and regulatory framework around that to support and sustain that is really important because we don't need just the provision of these digital assets, but we need the validation by society at large that we all agree upon the same mechanisms to measure the value and validity of these things. As you said, you cited with your own personal example, there needs to be case law so that we can determine what's a crime. Because if it's an asset, then it can be stolen also. And so therefore, we need to agree that how do we pursue people who are criminals, for example. And so.At Animoca Brands, we try to do our part, I think, in helping wherever asked, regulators to navigate what's going on in Web3 because we want to be a resource to help regulators to understand the, not just the technology and the capabilities of the technology, but really the benefits to how we can organize our digital lives in a very different way than it's been done before for the benefit of society at large, and how this is not a change necessarily to be feared, but one actually to be embraced.
I love that. I love that. Definitely embrace. So yeah, that was amazing. I love that statement. So what I, I mean, you touched on so many great points and when you talked about the sharing of wealth, equity, you know, we talk a lot about inclusion, diversity, but equity is the thing that really brought me to the blockchain space. And that wealth creation, the ability to create wealth in a different way that's more accessible to the many and not just the few. And I think a lot of people miss this. When they hear blockchain, they're hearing digital assets, but not really understanding the depth and the breadth of what a digital asset can mean for them or mean for society and the economy and they think of crypto and of course all the scams around crypto, but there is just so much to be understood and to learn and to embrace, going back to that key word, around digital assets and blockchain technology, because without blockchain technology, then we're not going to have those digital assets in the context in which you have touched upon. So I really hope the listeners take this into account and start thinking outside of the box or what they think they know and are more receptive to what they don't know because as I always say you don't know what you don't know, right? So just going back to you, the UK market, how did AnimoCo brands?
I guess my wife gets credit for this. So my wife is British. We met in Hong Kong, but I moved here with her to be closer to my in -laws, I guess about six years ago now. And so I think that was one of the initial, I think, I guess, I planted the flag here for the business as a result of a personal move. But also, following the pandemic, we found that actually we had quite a number of staff here in the UK who were remotely working for, because as a game company, we have many game studios. We have a few here across Europe, about six or seven studios. And so we had a lot of colleagues living in the UK who are working remotely for other studios, studios in France or in the Czech Republic or in the Nordics. And so we decided to open an office here so that we had a home for all of the wayward remote workers in the UK. So we have an office in London now.
Amazing. What are your thoughts on the London Web3 ecosystem?
So the London Web3 ecosystem, I find it took me a long time to navigate around it. And obviously, I've been in Web 3. I've actually been in London and I've been in Web 3 for about the same amount of time. So I'm new to both. Except in Web 3, I'm now considered senior in terms of tenure. But in London, I'm still a newbie, I think. I can make it without a map these days, but that's after many years. I think that the UK actually suffers from being a very developed economy. And the reason for that is that actually blockchain adoption happened quite early in the UK in the early days of Bitcoin. It was one of the first places. And in fact, many of the people who worked on the original creation of Ethereum, for example, were Brits. And so I think the UK has always had, you know, there's always been a minority here who have had an affinity for what's going on in the blockchain space since its very inception. And also, the UK has been a center both for Europe and globally for finance. And because blockchain had its origins in finance as an application, it grew in terms of thinking of blockchain and cryptocurrency as a digital asset class very early here. And so as a result, I think that the community of broader Web3 grew up in London and in the UK with a focus on financial services applications first and foremost. And actually, since the pandemic, there have been many other parts of the Web3 industry that have also grown to reasonable stature on their own. You know, obviously where we are in video games and entertainment, fine art, lots of other applications. And I find that actually there's a lot of fragmentation here in London because the communities that are involved in fine art or in gaming or in fintech tend to keep to themselves. And so as a result, I think maybe we're a little bit too decentralized to use a metaphor here in the UK. Whereas when I go to other cities around the world, I find sometimes, you know, when you go to a Web3 event, for example, anybody who's in Web3, regardless of what the application is that they do, they're all hanging out together, figuring out how to work together. Because I do think that one of the amazing innovations of having open source technology like blockchain is that we can actually all figure out ways in which we can work together. And there's no reason that, you know, as a game company that I have to just work on game applications with other game companies. I can work with DeFi applications. I can work with fine arts. You know, we're all essentially tokenized in value and in content. And so I think that if we don't try to find ways in which to cooperate and work together, then we don't actually benefit from the network effects that Web3 and tokenization creates.
Yes, very interesting. I mean, I do have my thoughts on the And when I say the UK, Web3, it's really London because London is the hub. It's where all the finance centres are. Do you do any work or talks outside of London? Have you been to Manchester, any of the other sort of city hubs?
First, I'm going to raise my hand and say I am a stereotypical, what I understand to be a stereotypical Londoner, which is I spend the vast majority of my time inside the M25. And as I noted to other people when I went and spoke at the Zebu Live conference last year, which was in Greenwich, I'm like, wow, this is actually the most East I've ever been in England, having lived here for six years. And if you're from London, you will appreciate the fact that people never leave their part of town typically. No, I think there's, so First, to answer your question, I spend very little time outside of London in the UK, which I'm ashamed to say. And secondly, I think at least I'm slightly redeemed myself by the fact that we've actually made a number of investments in British companies that are outside of London, particularly because the UK has a great legacy of game development. And the game development centers in the UK have typically been outside of London, although there are exceptions, notably King, obviously, which was a London -based business. But yeah, there are lots of, we've invested in companies in Wales and in the Midlands, etce, and on the South Coast because game development businesses are so diverse around the country.
Yeah, no, I hear that. And that's really great to hear that there is investment happening here just because you're based here and you are investing here, which is great for the UK economy. I mean, Women in Blockchain Talks, we have global chapters around the world. We have one in Zimbabwe. It's online, but it's there. It's happening. We've got a presence. Barcelona, Berlin, Warsaw, and also here in the UK, we have global chapters in Manchester, Birmingham, and Brighton. So Brighton's a great hub, and that's definitely a place you should definitely visit, especially in the summer. And so it's really, I think there is an importance to ensure that the information that is being consumed and created here in London trickles down to the regions so that those people, so that we can create diversity because diversity doesn't, and inclusion doesn't just look like what you look like or your gender, but it also can look like the different regions and just recently for International Women's Day our theme was Inspire Inclusion and so Inspire Inclusion on all levels including the regions.
So you will probably get some invites from me to come down. Fantastic. Okay. So finally, looking ahead, what trends do you anticipate shaping the future of digital ownership and how is AnimoCo Brands positioning itself to stay at the forefront of these developments here in the UK and globally? So I think we, so we don't really discriminate amongst markets. Obviously we try to make a difference and make investments and hire great people and stuff wherever they may be So we don't really think about borders in that sense. I think in terms of the future, for me, the most exciting thing is thinking about the adjacent applications to what we work on. Because at its heart, I think this Web3 revolution is about the idea of the network effects of shared ownership and decentralized governance and the idea that we can, as a society, go from being products online.
to being co -equal creators and owners of the time and effort that we put into online spaces. And so as a result, the network effects of that are dramatic. And we've seen this the more and more that we encourage projects in the Web3 space to collaborate together and to cross -pollinate their communities to outsized effect, that old adage of one plus one equaling more than two. And we see that time and time again. And I think for me, because I get a bit of a thrill out of the fact that this is something you can only do in Web3, I really like to see collaborations of projects that are not in the same vertical genre, meaning like an art project collaborating with a game or a DeFi protocol as opposed to two games or two art projects, etc. And so one of the initiatives that we started last year, well, We started several years ago, but we debuted the token protocol for it last year. It's called Open Campus, and the token is EDU. And as you could tell from the name, it's for education. And the idea there was to see how we can use essentially thinking about the education industry similar to how we think about the creator economy. Because one of the things that we noticed is that obviously Web3 technologies are fantastic for the creator economy because it allows creators to build communities and direct relationships with their customers at relatively low cost, because you don't have big centralized platforms taking huge, what we call take rates or fees, in the middle. And so we realized that if you think about teachers, teachers are actually arguably the biggest cohort of creators. There are more teachers in the world than there are YouTubers. And so if we think of the fact that teachers in so many countries around the world often you know, don't get paid enough, number one. And number two, end up taking secondary work, often more teaching, frankly, in their spare time, to make additional income. If we can help provide them with tools to do that, but to do it in a way that allows more of the fruits of their labor to come directly to them, that would be great. So we created what we call Publisher NFTs. And Publisher NFTs are essentially a way of tokenizing the traditional relationship between a publisher and a teacher. So what the teacher does is they analyze as an NFT a single class that they teach online to students and that token, that NFT represents the royalty stream of the exploitation of their works. And so essentially that means that the owner of that NFT gets a share of the future revenue of that class that that teacher is teaching on an online platform. And so by sharing that revenue, Essentially, the NFT owner takes the place of traditionally what would be a publishing company, because normally if you were a teacher in the old days, then you would go to a publishing house, they would publish your book and they'd give you an advance on your future royalties. And then they would share those royalties with you to recoup that advance over time. In this way, we just do it with an NFT instead. And so the owner of the NFT recoups the cost of that NFT over time as they receive through the smart contract, those royalties that the teacher generates. And so we actually haven't really changed the business model at all. But all we've done is make it tremendously more efficient, because then it opens up the possibilities for the teacher to sell that NFT and the rights to their work to anybody who's on the internet, not just a small circle of academic publishers, for example. And so anybody who has an interest, essentially, in supporting a teacher can then do so. And so I think Examples like this really excite me because it's ways in which we can just take away a little bit more of the friction of our daily lives and really empower people just by lowering the cost of what they do. I mean, it's a very old fashioned idea, but it works.
How does one find out more about this? Because I know there will be people listening to this who will be like, wow, that sounds amazing. Sure.
So you can go to opencampus .xyz and that is the Open Campus Protocol. We actually have a foundation. So if you do, if you're a teacher or you create academic applications, you can apply for grants because we encourage people to come and build on the Open Campus Protocol. The application I was talking about there specifically was our flagship launch application, which is built by a company called TinyTap and they have actually a very successful mobile app which is one of the most popular education apps in the App Store. And so they use their platform on mobile to monetize content for the teachers. And then that monetization passes through to the smart contracts of the people who own those publisher NFTs.
Perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much, Robby, for joining me on this podcast, Women in Blockchain Talks. And I really appreciate your insights and your leadership as well in the UK Web3 and just global Web3 space.
Thank you everyone for listening. For further information, please see the podcast notes where links will be shared around Animoca Brands, Robby, and of course the campus .xyz, is that correct? Open campus. That's it. Opencampus .xyz for those who are interested in learning more about digital assets and the tokenization of it.
I'm really excited about tokenization and the future of it, so please watch this space for more information and more education points. And I look forward to seeing you, hearing you, and please comment on this podcast and see you on the next one. Thank you. Thank you
