Hi, my name is Lavinia Osborne of Women in Blockchain Talks, and welcome back to another episode of Women in Blockchain Talks Podcast. And yes, we are back after a long hiatus and we are excited to be interviewing the amazing women and men who are in the blockchain and web3 industry, plus those who are in the adjacent industry who are adding value to this very exciting innovative, and forward-thinking industry and ecosystem. With me today, I have Martha Dalton, who is the co -founder of Lodestone Communications, a female owned award winning B Corp that represents clients across the economy to build reputation and create policy change. She's also the co -founder of a transatlantic, a bourbon company called never say die. She was one of the leading forces in the newly formed invest her campaign.
Welcome Martha. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Well first of all I have to say you are such an interesting person. I mean first of all you have BCorp which is amazing. You are running a female owned communications platform and furthermore you're all about policy change which is so important. I don't think people really appreciate the amount of work
and the advocacy that goes into policy change. And you also are the co -founder of an alcohol business. Like, I personally don't know that many women who run, own, started a bourbon company. And the women that I am aware of, they've either inherited it from their family, you know, from their family.
So there is so much I want to talk to you about, but first of all, can you tell me about InvestHer and what that campaign was all about? Of course, and it's also how we got to know each other. So the Invest Her campaign came out a change that the Treasury had decided to do that from our perspective just hadn't been thought through. Basically, on the 31st of January, they changed the rules around angel investing. And basically what that meant was the threshold in which you could become an angel investor moved up from 100 ,000 pounds a year, you had to earn 170. And ultimately what that meant was that 70 % of the UK angel investors, and you've heard that right, 70%, in some regions it would have wiped out all of them, would have been wiped out of the investment community, which would have been devastating for female founders and devastating for the UK economy. So I joined forces with you and with lots of other people, Emma Wright at Harbottles, Sarah King at Obu, Samantha Niblett, who's Labour Women in Tech, with lots and lots of other people, too many people to name, to come up with a really clear ask of Treasury, which was in the budget to reverse it. We knew it was wrong, and so all of us banded together and started this campaign with a really, really clear ask and worked really, really hard over about six weeks to get the change. And I'm so pleased to say that we managed it.
Yes, we did. And the March 6th budget, it was announced it would be reversed. And it was just an amazing feeling because so many times we use our voices, but we don't necessarily see the results that we're looking for, but in this case, we got the results. And I don't think people really appreciate the amount of work or how often this does not happen. Would you like to expand more on that? Yeah, I think so. I've been working in policy and advocacy since about 2009, and I can name on one hand the number of times that this type of campaign has worked. And the fact that it worked in six weeks when we were all doing this, you know, without being paid from the sides of our desks, you know, I have never experienced that happening. And I think it was great that the Treasury invited us in, into number 11, to discuss this, because I think that what was really clear was that there was a failure of policy making. The fact that the policy would have wiped out 70 % of female investors and the Treasury didn't know that despite running what I understand was a pretty wide consultation is pretty shocking. And it shows up one that female voices in the investment community are not being heard loud enough. And then the other thing that, You know, isn't new, but it shows that the gender pay gap is real.
The fact that these changes would have disproportionately affected women shows up that fact loud and clear. And that's something that I'm really passionate about. What policy changes can we make and what changes as business leaders can we make so that women can be closing that gap or not women closing the gap, but their pay should be being reduced. It's 2024. Yeah, exactly. And I think it also highlights that women are not being represented adequately enough in the angel investing and just in the VC investing investing world for this to have happened for this policy to have been brought into into effect and the interesting thing about it is there was report last year where the government showed that the start -ups, most start -ups are being led by women. And some of the reasons behind that was because women feel like they're hitting a glass ceiling, they want to branch out onto their own so that they can have more flexibility, lifestyle and work, you know, work -lifestyle balance. And so when you think about that and in regards to, yes, the gender pay gap, but also the fact that women get less than 2 % funding, from VC funding here in the UK and it's also more or less the same across the world. If you look at the US stats for example, again it shows that we are still being treated as second -class citizens when it comes to having our voices lead on policy. So a question for you right now is how do we change that? I mean this was a successful campaign but it's a very small part of a bigger picture and a bigger change that needs to happen.
Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, you know, it was a historic campaign, but it only got us back to where we started. It got us back to last December, which as you rightly say is not good enough. The amazing people, Erica Extend Ventures, you know, that's her data talking about the only 2 % of VC funding going to female founders. And when you look at businesses led by black women, 0 .14 went to black women -led businesses between 2021 to 2023. So I mean, it's, you know, it's, yeah, it's just horrific. And I think that what you get to is this bit of a kind of death spiral where there's not enough data. So we can't show in big enough ways that actually female -led businesses, the ones that do get the funding and that do scale, they're performing better than the male -led ones. The mixed teams are also performing better, but the data isn't there. There's been lots of voluntary codes and this sort of thing trying to make people disclose where the money is flowing. In my opinion, that hasn't worked. And as we all know, what gets measured gets done.
Exactly! What gets measured, gets done. So here's a question or here's some thoughts. Do you think, because this is, you know, our podcast is not about mancession or anything like that. We're looking at the data and it's important, particularly because this historic campaign and the change happened in the month of March, which is International Women's Month and we were invited to 11 Downing Street on March 7th, so the day before March 8th, which is International Women's Day. So it was huge. It really was a momentous moment for the work and the effort that we all put in and then also to be invited to Downing Street and the day before International Women's Day. I was on a high, I don't know about you, that whole week. So we had May, sorry, March 6th, which was the budget day. So we heard it got reversed. It was like, woo! Then we went down to Downing Street and it was like, woo! And then International Women's Day, it was like, woo! So lots of woos going on. So, you know, with that being said, do you think that the policy makers, which are generally men, and also the business world, which is obviously very male heavy, very male dictated and led. Do you think they actually care about these numbers? When? And I, in the context of, do you think they care? But in the context of, we also know that we add to the economy. And so you would think that, isn't it important for the economy to grow, to invest in us?
So where is the missing link?
Well, I think that, as you rightly say, the Rose review that looked at this and where financial decisions are happening and where money flows showed that if female -led businesses were backed financially to the same level that male ones were, that 250 billion would be added to the UK economy. And at the moment, no one can ignore that.
The UK economy is not in a great shape. We're in recession or on the verge of recession. My understanding is that Brexit knocked off about 4 % of GDP and that if you literally just turned on the tap to high performing, scalable, female led businesses, that you could add more than that to the UK economy. No one can ignore that. Even if you don't care about gender equity you know, think about the economy and think about what that could do. There are lots of things that we need in the country, public services that need to be improved. And there are lots of women who are raring to go and just need the money to make their businesses scale. So, you know. Yeah. And it's an important point that you just stated there. And it is so infuriating because the solution seems so simple, invest in women investing female founders and in doing so we also can help to employ more women and also increase that gender gap, that gender pay gap, sorry. And so I was going to say the reason I got involved with this campaign, InvestHer and why I felt so passionate about it was simply because I am an entrepreneur, I am a female founder or just founder full stop and I just find it very tricky, challenging to just to find funding, to raise funding and also get sponsorship. You know, it's like you have to know the right people and if you don't know the right people or you're not in the right circles, then it just doesn't come to you. And I don't think it should be this hard. And there are grants out there, but there's so many people going for the grants. And so in my mind, I thought, well, if this is going to reduce the angel, investing platform by 70 % women here in London and zero across the land. I just thought that that that can't that cannot I cannot sit by and allow that to happen. And a lot of women actually, because I'm in a lot of women orientated groups, they weren't even aware of this. And that's the thing that shocked me. I'm like, you have to be more self aware. And also,clued out to what's happening in the entrepreneurial world in order for your voice to matter. And I'm just so happy that I was contacted and asked to be involved in that. I was able to use my voice and the Women in Blockchain Talks platform to basically involve and invite other people to sign the campaign and get the job done. But I think the key takeaway from all of this is that we need to be more aware of what's happening with policy and also what's happening in regards to investing and then the different organisations that deal with that and help with that. And also we just have to, men and women, but I'm speaking to the men here, you know, how can you involve more women into your networks and your circles so they can get invested so that they can get sponsorship because...It is a benefit to everyone for the UK economy and you know the UK economy is important to me and it should be to you and particularly those who are in the UK. And I say this because this is you know we have listeners from around the world but I read just today in the newspaper that the UK we are very generous lot. We give I think it was 1 .3 billion a year generously to charities and that's not just here in the UK but around the world even though we're going through a living crisis in regards to funds and income coming in. So the more that we can do better as an economy, the more we can actually give to other nations as we already have been doing.
So another question for you. Research suggests that female founders often struggle to secure investments compared to their male counterparts. In your experience, what are some of the key factors contributing to this disparity? Well, I think it's a mixture of things and it's multifaceted. I think that often, as we know, VC funds, institutional investors are largely stacked with white men from a certain educational background. And they think that they're successful and that when they look over at the table at people that don't look like them, they look like a risk. I think that that's a big problem, particularly when you twin that with the fact that there isn't very much data out there. So what they need to be thinking is actually investing in a diverse portfolio is actually about hedging your risk. Actually mixed teams, female teams that do get the investment are actually outperforming them but I don't think anyone gets sacked for backing a business run by an Oxbridge white male. And that might sound a bit stark or crude, but I think that that's what the numbers tell us. And we need to change that. And I don't think it's just the job of women to change that. It should be the job of regulation and policy. I think that, you know, As a result of the Invest Her campaign, we're now being asked by Treasury to input our ideas, which is great. We've got a seat at the table and we want to do that very much in collaboration with everyone that supported the InvestHer campaign. There's more than 3 ,000 people out there who worked their socks off to help get this change over the line. So now we've got that seat at the table, we need to think through how do we move that 2 % number upwards? you know, and how do we do that quickly? And I think that, to be honest, I think that there needs to be some mandatory reporting requirements on funds, particularly ones that are getting tax breaks, ones that are getting public funding, you know, pension funds. We're all being required to pay into our pension funds and pension funds are not reporting on this. So how can that change be done?
So that's one of the things that we're thinking through at the Invest Her campaign, along with other things. We want to make it easy. We want new regulations to come through that compliance departments think, well, do you know what? That is totally reasonable, and it's not that hard, so we're just going to do it.
And I just love what InvestHer stands for and I'm really proud and happy to be a part of it. So I want to shift the conversation and I'd like for you to tell us more about your Bourbon company and how that got started. And yeah, and how was it being a female founder in that space? Okay, well, it's basically was a drunken idea that we actually decided to do. So.
probably not the most conventional way of starting a business, but basically I'm in business with a guy called David Wilde here in London. He went to the Kentucky Derby with one of his old college pals and they were sat on the back of the bus, I think quite a fancy bus, drinking some mint juleps with a whole load of actually kind of Silicon Valley kind of tech bros who had all invested in bourbon, were all talking about how much money they'd made. And Pat says to David, oh, you know, There was this horse that grew up on my family farm and it was called Never Say Die. And do you know why it was called Never Say Die? Because when it was born, it couldn't breathe and they didn't know what to do and there was a party going on at the house. And so someone comes down with a big bottle of bourbon and goes, hey, last roll of the dice, let's shove a bit of bourbon up its nose and see what happens. You know, it might save its life. It might kill it in the morning, luckily for that little foal It's trotting around the Penn, and that horse goes on to be the first American racehorse that wins an English classic, does so in 1954 in front of the Queen and Winston Churchill. And so, as you can imagine, a completely crazy story, and they're like, oh my gosh, we should make a bourbon, we should make it in Kentucky, we should bring it over in the original barrels on the ocean, the only people in the world to do that maybe the only people in the world stupid enough to do that, but hey, bring it to England, finish it in England. And so that's what we did. And so, you know, as someone that's worked basically in politics and advocacy and PR, I had to figure out how to set up a whole UK operation. You know, we set up a brand, made the bottle, and actually it's really fun having a tangible thing that we sell. And so that's fun. Oh, wow. I love it. There's so much history. Did that horse, that fowl, ever have children? So, it did go on to stud, but I couldn't tell you the names of them. Pat will absolutely kick me because he's the horse nut and he'll know the lineage inside out. But the other bit to the story, which is quite fun, is that up in Liverpool before the race, there was a woman who was really down on her luck called Mona Best. And she walks past a black market bookies and sees a horse at 33 to one called Never Say Die and says, oh, that's a bit of me, pawns all her jewelry, puts it all on Never Say Die, wins big and says to her son Pete Best and his friend John and Paul, guys, you can start your band. And so they became the Beatles. No way. No way.
Oh my gosh. The history just keeps coming. Wow, I know you're part of that. Yeah, so it's great. And so when we, you know, as a, you know, as someone that loves telling stories, we heard that story and we're like, wow, that's so cool. And so that's why we started the Bourbon Company and also why we bring it over on the ocean. So it ocean ages like the horse. So that's quite fun. I love that. You know, like you said at the beginning of this, of our podcast, like I've got to know you through the Invest Her, but what I find stimulating is that you are a female founder and you have been in business in two industries. And so I think it's so important to be able to connect with people who have kind of walked that road and learn and to be encouraged by people who are doing what you want to do. And the stories that we share in getting started is empowering. And again, you know, International Women's Month These are the stories that we need to hear to be encouraged and to keep going.
And so, you know, as we round off this this interview, what would you what message would you like to leave with our listeners? And I ask you this in the contents of that, you know, we as founders, we're not just female founders, we're founders full stop. But of course, as we can hear and we have seen and the data shows that there are challenges that we have.
that we do face and it's just the reality. And so what sort of lasting words would you like to leave for our listeners?
I guess anyone that wants to become a founder, do it. I think take risks when you're young, if you can. If you're privileged enough to be able to do that, because it gets more complicated as you get older. Find people that help keep you resilient. You know, the friends and family and the people that you keep around you are going to be the people that keep you strong. There are going to be lots of people that are going to, you know, won't like that you're successful. So you need people around you that are going to give you that resilience because you can't pour from an empty cup. You know, you can't, being a founder is exhausting and you have to be positive. So you need people to help you with that. So they probably, my two things, take risks. find people that keep you resilient and do stuff you love because you know with the Invest Her campaign it was something that we were all enjoying doing and we all believed in it and so actually it made working on a Sunday perfectly fine if you hate what you're doing then it's everything's a chore so you know you work for a long time so find something you love and you know if that's not too cheesy it's a lot easier if you enjoy work.
Thank you so much Martha so to our listeners we will be putting in the podcast notes, the link to invest her, please join us, please follow what we're doing. You know, I always like to say that we can't work in silo. And what do I mean by that? That there are different, even if you are abroad in another country, you know, look at what we're doing, because I look at what other countries are doing in regards to this, because..Together we can, it's not just a UK issue or US issue, it's a worldwide global issue. And I think if we work together, come together, learn from each other, then we can do more. And if you are in the UK and you are a founder, then please get involved with our campaign because policy matters and also our voices matter. So thank you for listening and till next time, have a great.
Have a great one. Thank you.
